EPISODE 5: AMY N

In this episode, we welcome, Amy who shares her journey from first using drugs at age 12, through her 18 years of conventional AA recovery, to a relapse triggered by a post-surgery opioid prescription and 12 more years of active addiction, to finally returning to the program. 

 Amy says, "I don't crave today and that's probably the most important thing that you're going to hear come out of my mouth in this whole share—because that is huge and I don't ever want to forget that." Amy says that Secular NA saved her life by allowing her to strip away religious language and focus on the spiritual principles underneath—honesty, humility, compassion, and gratitude—supported by peer community and behavioral change rather than a higher power. Recorded on March 29, 2025 at the Friday, NA Secular Speaker Meeting.

For more information on recovery from addiction through Narcotics Anonymous 12 step program from a secular, non-religious approach, please check out secularna.org

**  This podcast is not formally affiliated in any way with Narcotics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous World Services. **

Comments are welcome. Email to: secularna@gmail.com

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:13

Greetings! Welcome and thank you for tuning into our podcast, Stories of Secular Recovery from Addiction Through Narcotics Anonymous. I am Michael E., coordinator and producer of the podcast. Each episode in the podcast is a story of addiction recovery from a member of Narcotics Anonymous, NA, who became clean in a secular, non-religious way. For more information about secular NA, check out our website, secularna.org. In this episode, we welcome Amy, who shares her journey from first using drugs at age 12, then through her 18 years of conventional AA recovery, a relapse triggered by a post-surgery opioid prescription, and 12 more years of active addiction before returning to a program. Amy says, quote, I don't crave today, and that's probably the most important thing that you're going to hear come out of my mouth in the whole share, because that is huge, and I don't ever want to forget that. Amy says that secular NA saved her life by allowing her to strip away religious language and focus on the spiritual principles underneath honesty, humility, compassion, and gratitude, supported by a peer community and behavioral change rather than a higher power. Here's Amy.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Hi, everybody. My name is Amy, and I am an addict, and I am so happy to see all these new faces here today. It's really, really, really nice. Um, so I don't crave today, and that's probably the most important thing that you're gonna hear come out of my mouth in this whole share, um, because that is huge. And I don't ever want to forget that. I don't ever want to forget the hell of obsessing and craving drugs um and um of becoming a person that I really did not like because of it and how hard it was for me to get here today. So yeah, um, I don't crave. It's amazing. It's amazing, it's so freaking nice. I wake up and I don't crave, and I haven't, you know, thrown up in a toilet bowl in five years, or et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So anyway, um uh I'm gonna just kind of real quickly qualify so that I can get to the good part, which is how secular recovery works for me. Um I I came to the world of drugs and alcohol, a very broken person. Um, with, you know, like a lot of us, there was uh childhood trauma, um, there was alcoholism, there was neglect, uh, social ostracism, bullying, um, you know, a whole lot of ugliness. So uh I was um a very fearful, insecure person with a very dark view of life when at the very young age of 12, I came to the world of drugs and alcohol, very broken person, um very uh pained and troubled, and drugs made it all okay. Um, drugs made it all okay. Um, I was 12 when I first started using drugs, and don't think that I had a clean day from the age of 12 to 27. Um, I tell my story in an odd way. I think of myself as having gone through I I refer to my this as my first recovery uh when I was 27. I got clean through conventional AA in New York a long, long time ago. Um and I stayed clean for 18 years. Um, however, I always had a lot of issues with many aspects of the program and um, you know, not not just the the religiosity of it all, but the a lot of the jargon. And so I I argued a lot and I didn't really feel 100% like I fit in or belonged. And um so I kind of drifted away and I moved from New York and came out here to California, and um I and I never really reconnected with the program. So um I stayed clean for 18 years and I had and then at in at like at the age of like 40 or something, I had uh massive ruptured disc and I had back surgery, and they sent me home with a bottle of Vicadin and six months of refill. And this was before the epidemic. And um, you know, I'd always struggled with depression, so um it's funny, different people respond differently to these uh to this drug, but I was one of the people for whom it created an immense sense of euphoric well-being, and there was just absolutely no way I wasn't going to allow myself to experience that. Um, and because I had drifted away from the program, you know, I really convinced myself that it was okay. And actually for two years, I used in relative, relative moderation, if you can call daily use moderate, um, but it didn't immediately spiral out of control. Um ultimately it did. Of course, it did. And I remember very well the day that um I took my one little pill at the end of my workday and I didn't get high. And um I remember it so well because it was panic. And so, no problem, I'll start taking two. And then from there on, you know, it was a much quicker acceleration, and um it was really, really bad. I stayed out for 12 years. I'm really lucky to be alive today at all. This was right before the epidemic began. And this is this is a classic story I love to tell about like, you know, the epidemic started, and every time I heard stories about the epidemic, either in the news or on the radio, my reaction was, oh my fucking god, this really sucks. How am I gonna get my drugs? It was never, oh my god, this is a crisis, all these people are dying. It was just like, this is so bad for me. Um okay, so let me fast forward here. So yeah, it it snowballed. Um, by the end, you know, I was scoring illicit drugs, up advanced to hydrocodone, couldn't get high, overdosing all the time. I probably overdosed about a half a dozen times. Um, and it was literally a matter of either you stop or you die. And that's when I finally came back to the program. Um, and it was really hard because this is before I'd found secular, and I really, really struggled with it. Um, it felt like the meetings I went to were drenched in HP and it was not working for me, HP being higher power. Um, but I managed um to find a meeting, an NA meeting, a woman's meeting, where they kind of tolerated my me talking about being an atheist and me having a secular interpretation of the program. And then about a year into it, I um a f uh uh a woman in the meeting um helped me start the Sunday Atheist Recover 2 meeting, and it was a secular meeting. And um at that time, there it was small and it was hard, but we got that meeting started, and then gradually over the years, um this uh movement has grown, and there are lots of secular meetings. So I have to say, secular saved my life. Um there's so much good in the program mixed in with all the stuff that doesn't work for me, the the a lot of the jargon and and the the the basically what I consider I consider to be a Christian program. Um, and I'm an atheist, so that just doesn't work for me. But there's so much good in there. And so the past five years has been this amazingly liberating journey of sorting out the wheat from the chaff and figuring out what what are the strengths of the program and how can I pluck it all apart and put together a program that really works for me. Um and I got a sponsor for the first time and I worked the steps through five for the first time ever, because I'd never done any of that in in recovery. Um, and it's I've just grown so much and been able to embrace the program so much more than I ever ever did, and it's been amazing. So, you know, the first thing that comes up for me in secular is so if it's not all about a higher power, how does it work? You know, how does it work? And um, you know, the first thing I did was I allowed myself, gave myself permission to throw HP out as a pretty much useless concept to me, except as it pertains to community and fellowship. Um and um I'm just gonna take a minute to read something to you from a book that saved my life, um called Common Sense Recovery. And uh it's called the chapter is called The Real Higher Power, and it goes, it says, um Um, what guides and sustains us on a day-by-day basis is peer support, empathy, mentor guidance, and emotional reinforcement by group membership. Um, there are reams of data from social psychology and evolutionary biology and a host of other disciplines that attest to the essential role played by peer groups and societies in determining both our values and our action choices in shaping our thoughts and behaviors. When I plug into a fellowship like NA, I am immersing myself in a like-minded tribe which shares the all-important common goals and values of sustainable recovery. I am given the power I need to live more successfully as a clean individual. Um, I make when I make a habit of regularly hanging out with you guys in a relatively teachable and humble state, I am more often than not restored to sanity. And that is the first three steps in a nutshell. And I believe that. I think that, you know, if you are coming to meetings and you're relatively open-minded and you're hanging out here, you are working the first three steps to perfection. Um that's how that's how it works for me. So um, so yeah, one of the things that I did when I first got clean and was struggling with my relationship to the 12-step program was I opened up some of the literature with a black magic marker and I crossed out every reference to higher power or spirituality as I read it. Everyone. And I'll tell you something, it was amazing because what happened was in every paragraph, almost every paragraph, there was some reference to some spiritual principle that underlined what they were talking about. And so when I was done with that experiment, I was like, that's it. That's it. It's all about the spiritual uh principles underlying each step. And um, you know, whether it's humility or compassion or being of service or getting out of self-absorption, all of which are really important to me. Even HP is basically about humility. Um, you don't ever have to use the phrase HP. I just need to have humility, especially in early recovery when I need to admit that I'm defeated and I need to ask for help. And those things require humility. So I determined that for me, what they were calling a spiritual life was a principled life, a life according to certain principles like honesty. It's really important, not just in terms of what I say to you and other people, but how I look at myself, being really honest with me, about me. Um, humility, acceptance. You know, that's willingness, compassion, self-awareness, tolerance, and a big one for me, gratitude. And you know what? That's a lifetime of work right there for me. I mean, I can spend the rest of my life working on those principles. So for me, there's no need to get all overly complicated and woo-woo about it, because that's it right there. Um, and it's not that I'm trying to be a saint, it's just that my life goes better when I use those in my life. And when my life goes better, I'm a little bit more grounded and less likely to resort to drugs as a coping mechanism. Um, and so, you know, the other piece on um on how it works for me is that I come here and you guys help me learn how to live because I missed that class. Like I didn't really learn some of the basic stuff, mostly the coping, the coping tools, how to cope. Um I I've learned the skill of active listening here, which makes my relationships go better. I've learned how to start, or I continue to learn how to let things go instead of spinning out and making myself crazy over stuff. Um, I've learned a little bit about self-love. Um, I'm one year off smoking. That is the biggest act of self-love I've ever done. Um, and I've learned how to um self-validate instead of constantly relying on others around me to validate me, which causes my relationships to just go a whole lot better. Um and so then the other piece I'll say about how it works for me is again, I'd like to read something out of this book. Um if you don't mind. Um so for me, and everyone's different, I found that a lot of what recovery was about was kind of like reprogramming myself, reprogramming my habits of mind and my ways of reacting. Um and um so uh the in this book, Common Sense Recovery, it there's a chapter tit uh all about the the the slogan, I know slogan, slogans, fake it till you make it. Um however, uh well actually this one is you that we cannot think our way into right living, but we can live our way into right thinking. I'll say that one again. We cannot think our way into right living, but we can live our way into right thinking. And that's what you know we mean when we say it's a program of action. You just do the next right thing. Get out of your head, do the next right thing. And um, this simple statement encompasses one as one of the essential principles of sustained recovery. As irreligious as it may sound, much of recovery simply boils down to behavioral conditioning. We are what we do. The most important way to change character traits is to consistently practice different behaviors. The thoughts and motivations behind our behaviors will follow suit given time and consistent effort. This is the gist of the common expression, fake it till you make it. The most obvious example is, of course, that treatment for addiction primarily consists of not taking the first drug. If we can do this for long enough, the cravings weaken until they are merely thoughts. Then the thoughts too weaken, so long as we don't let them build a nest or put down roots. They come with less frequency, with less intensity, until one day we realize that they have been replaced by a new and different set of thoughts, values, beliefs, and behaviors. Once the fundamental problem of craving has been solved, we are freed, readied, and empowered with these tools, these this secular recipe to change other areas of our lives as well. Do the next right thing for long enough, and sure enough, your thoughts, desires, and values can all be radically transformed. Um I used to say in one of the meetings I went to, I don't believe in God, but I do believe in our capacity to radically transform ourselves. And that's kind of what recovery helps us to do. Um so um, yeah, you know, I I I I mean, here's here's an example. I know this is a step meeting and I haven't talked about the steps, but here's an example of what I would see the difference between conventional and and secular. When I was in conventional in early recovery, all I cared about was how do I deal with my cravings? How do I get through the day with this craving and obsession dogging me every step I take? And in conventional, I was told to pray to my higher power to relieve me of the obsession to use, which meant absolutely nothing to me. Um, in conventional, I was told things like, you know, it's hard and and you just gotta hang in there. So go to go to go to meetings and don't drink is the AA expression I turned it into go to movies and don't think. Um get out of your head, stay busy, stay connected, go to lots of meetings, but you are just gonna have to tough it out. There's no way around it. But if you hang in there, the cravings will pass. And I had sticky notes up on all my wind, all over my house. Freedom from obsession, freedom from obsession. That's just that's like just hang in there one day at a time, and one day at a time is you know a profound truism. So, um, but I really, really appreciated it when I was told it's tough and you just gotta tough it out because that made a whole lot more sense than let's go pray to your higher power to relieve you of the obsession to use. So um let's see. I think that that kind of covers it. Um I, you know, I'm not I I'm a work in progress, and that's one of the things that I I need to always remember about recovery is that it's a process. I kind of think of it almost as a spiral staircase. It's like I kind of go back around and revisit the same information, but each time I revisit it, I've grown a little more and I've learned a little more. Um, you know, the 12th step is um talks about having had a spiritual awakening. Well, I think that I have these little mini awakenings all the time in recovery, where it's like all of a sudden someone just turned on the lights and I get this amazing insight into myself and into why I do what I do and and feel the way I feel. And it's it's it's really it's a journey and it it takes time. So um my kind of takeaway message for any newcomers in the room is um to give yourself time, give this time, um, and to find your path and your way, because there is no single right way to do recovery. Um, and nobody else can really tell you what your way is. You can listen to what all of us have to say, and then you put your program together that works for you. Um, and perseverance. Somebody else said this in a meeting perseverance is more important than knowledge or intelligence. It's like you may not understand how it works, you may not even understand what the fuck everyone in these rooms is talking about, but you just hang on and hang in and persevere. And, you know, I think it was someone else I heard say, I heard it in the year one, I understood it in year five, you know. So I think that's all I've got. And wow, am I actually quitting early? I am, I didn't use up all my time. That's amazing because I usually have more than enough to say. So I want to hear from all of you. Thanks for letting me share.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

A big thank you to Amy. We can all relate to her messages about the transformative power of perseverance, about finding a personal path, and about the quote, live your way into right thinking, end quote, philosophy. That is the core of Amy's secular program. A reminder to everyone for more information on recovery from addiction through the Narcotics Anonymous 12 step program from a secular, non religious approach, please check out our. Our website, secularna.org. That's S E C U L A R N A. This is Michael E for the stories of secular recovery from addiction through Narcotics Anonymous podcast. Staying clean, one speaker at a time.