EPISODE 02-21-2025 MAGGIE

In this episode, we hear from Maggie, who shares how fear of abandonment, low self-esteem, and seemingly small, early tendencies (such as being fixated on salt), led to addiction.  She explains that she sees Recovery as lifelong process built on integrity and willingness, and also tells how she built nearly two decades of recovery without relying on a higher power.

 "I do live as best I can my program, the steps. I'm engaged, I'm involved, I have service positions — and I think sometimes if there is a fall-off of doing steps, having service is a really good idea too."

 In terms of a higher power, Maggie offers a secular reinterpretation of “HP” : "For the HP part — higher purpose. Doesn't have to be higher power, because I have a direction that is bigger than me, right? And I have so much that I can depend on and work on, and I will always have a future as long as I let it be."

For more information on recovery from addition through Narcotics Anonymous 12 step program from a secular, non-religious approach, please check out secularna.org

**  This podcast is not formally affiliated in any way with Narcotics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous World Services. **

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Greetings. Welcome and thank you for tuning into our podcast, Stories of Secular Recovery from Addiction Through Narcotics Anonymous. I am Michael E., coordinator and producer of the podcast. Each episode in the podcast is a story of addiction recovery from a member of Narcotics Anonymous, NA, who became clean in a secular, non-religious way. For more information about secular NA, check out our website, secularna.org. In this episode, we hear from Maggie, who shares how fear of abandonment, low self-esteem, and seemingly small early tendencies, such as being fixated on salt, led to addiction. She explains that she sees recovery as a lifelong process built on integrity and willingness. And also she tells how she built nearly two decades of recovery without relying on a higher power. Quote, I do live as best I can my program, the steps. I'm engaged, I'm involved, I have service positions, and I do think that sometimes if there is a fall-off of doing steps, having service is a really good idea. In terms of a higher power, Maggie offers a secular reinterpretation of HP. Quote, for the HP part, higher purpose. Doesn't have to be a higher power because I have a direction that is bigger than me, right? And I have so much that I can depend on and work on, and I will always have a future as long as I let it be. Here's Maggie.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Hi everyone, my name is Maggie. I am an addict. Um can ask me if I was nervous. Uh he asks, I am. So yes, my hands are sweating, and my heart is pounding a little bit harder. But my heart pounded hard when I was using two. Um, so just as a beginning, I kind of was just touching back on like, you know, when I first started using and whatnot. Um my mother, when I was about, I don't even know, like six or eight years old, like had this feeling that I was gonna be an addict. Or, you know, not those words necessarily, but she noticed that I had some tendencies. Um and I just liked to like try things, right? I was addicted to salt. Uh I used to steal the vitamin C chewables, um, you know, uh little things like that. And apparently I got caught without knowing. Um, I remember having my uncle and my dad blow smoke in my face when they were smoking. Um, and I used to put alcohol in my soup. Um weird. Cream of mushroom, by the way. Um I don't know why. And it I remember it not tasting too good, but I those are obviously tendencies, right? Um, I always kind of come back to this, but I experience fear of abandonment um and a lot of anxiety. My I was adopted at two days old, and my family has adopted four out of five children, um, adults now. And um, as I was getting older, like I had a lot of low self-esteem. I couldn't talk to myself in a positive way. I was convinced that I didn't really matter, and I wanted all of the attention because I was experiencing these feelings, but I couldn't say what was going on, and I didn't have the words for it. So um my behaviors were, to say the least, needy and um just just like really hard to to gather. Um, I was a swimmer, so I got a lot of attention with that. You know, I was swimming um elite and I was good. And when I won, everything was great. When I didn't win, I was not happy, right? So it was kind of like I needed that attention. And um, you know, when I was doing well, I got a lot of it. When I wasn't doing well, I was getting kind of like small threats. Like, if you don't reach this at this time, then you're done. And like, okay, I want to be done. Yay. Um, so that insecurity, that that not knowing what's coming next, the fear that I was gonna be left behind or someone's gonna cancel on me, that all built up. When I first started drugs, it was wonderful. Um, I made friends and I um something was fulfilling. I made really weird artwork um that it wasn't very um productive. But um, you know, there were times when I would stop, there was times when I would start. Um, I actually got through college using, um, did drop out a couple of times, but well, once, and then I did end up graduating and I walked down the aisle high as a kite. Um, but those feelings of insecurity and abandonment and depression and just fear about life, like they always stuck around, right? They always kind of overcame me, and I still didn't really have the words because um, you know, when I was a kid, they tried to put me into therapy and whatnot. And I, you know, I didn't know what that was about. Like I just didn't understand it. Um, so it it it built. And I mean, not to say that I'm all that I'm pretty secure now, but I still have a lot of insecurities. I still beat myself up. I still want, you know, I'm still afraid of people leaving and um not wanting anything to do with me. And um, it's just it's stuff that I work on, right? Um, some days I'm more positive, some days I'm not. Um, and it's I think I I've had to accept that that is just the way I am and the way that I have been. And you know, some days are better than others. It's just internalized and it's it can be painful. But um, you know, when I when I got clean, it was like I got pregnant, and I wouldn't suggest anybody go get pregnant if they're trying to get clean, but it worked for me. Um I started going to meetings. Let's see, I was, I think it was 28 or 29, and um I literally got knocked out of bed by an earthquake. Um, literally. And um, to me, that was like a sign, like because I had been up for a week and I couldn't look at myself, I couldn't talk to anybody, I didn't want anything to do with me, and I was so ashamed and so embarrassed. And um, that that brought me to the rooms. Um, you know, like the first step, right? It's honesty and it's surrender and all of that good stuff. Um this time it was pregnancy, but it was also time. I felt so much shame that I needed to come into something. My first meeting was an AA meeting, and I'd been there for a couple of weeks, and I remember somebody pulling me aside and be like, You don't belong here. I'm like, oh great, the abandonment thing is coming up, right? But it turned out, turned out that there was NA meetings that would fit me better. And I went to it and it sure did. Like, um, so I was still pregnant at this time and I started attending a um group step study. And you know, in all honesty, you guys, um I I I am uh atheist now, however, I tried really, really, really hard to believe. And I don't think I ever really paid much attention when they had us doing the readings and had us writing the steps and using those terms, right? Um, so I think I was more focused on having to get clean and trying to stay present and trying to stay in the moment. Um and honestly, I obviously I surrendered because I'm here and I needed to be someplace where I couldn't do any more harm or you know, just bad stuff. And I needed I needed people like us, like you. Um so oh gosh, I lost my train of thought. Um yeah, surrender and and you know, I was looking at um, so I was looking at one word um 12 step um 12 traditions, uh spiritual principles, stuff like that. And I I'm glad I found the one word because it it wasn't mentioning all of the religious stuff, which you know, oh that's where I was. I tried really, really hard. And until I hit my about 16th, 15th, 16th year, I think it was my 15th, I decided I wasn't um a believer. And over the years, like I said, I tried and tried and tried. Went to church, tried to, you know, some people put their hands over my head and spoke in tongues, and somebody got mad at me because I didn't believe at that moment. And I just I can't force myself, right? I can't pretend. And here I am trying to make my life better. Well, my life was is better here. Um, and it has been. Like I've never been able to depend on something like that, even though I tried. Um so um back to the one word. Um when uh when the word, let's see, the number two when I looked at was faith. And a lot of people, you know, uh accumulate that to or compare it to faith in a deity or whatnot. However, um, I was thinking like I have faith in myself to be able to move forward and to do what I need to do. It doesn't have to be a religious term. Um, and I can't convince anybody of that, but that's how it works for me. Um, and for the HP part, and I've read this in different places higher purpose. Doesn't have to be higher power, higher purpose, because I have a direction that is bigger than me, right? And I have so much that I can depend on and work on, and I will always have a future as long as I let it be. I don't want to cut my future short. You know, I do have depression. Sometimes it doesn't, I'm not I'm not suicidal, I don't have ideations, but sometimes I'm just like, this is fucked up. I don't want to be here sometimes, but not like that. Maybe I just need to get out of the moment, right? Um, the number four is soul searching. Sometimes people take soul as religion. I've heard people say it. So for me, like I believe I do have a soul. I believe, and that for me is like my integrity, my my wanting to be good to people, be good to myself, be open-minded, right? I'm searching within to be something that I'm working on, right? Somebody that I'm working on. Um, and I can put that together. It says healing. Um, I'm trying to heal, I'm trying to heal everything that I've been to, been through, and I can't change the past. So I have to heal through that. Um, you know, and what I was thinking about when I read that and thought of those terms, I was thinking like, there is no way early in recovery that I was really able to attend to these things because I was really trying to like wrap my head even just around a schedule, a structure, and trying to not feel um having like social anxiety and whatnot. So what I I I have developed and learned and still working on is that it's day by day. It's just for today, just like our using or not you are not using. Um so it's really like I remember coming in and just like wanting to rush through the steps, right? Not possible. And if it is possible, I feel that we're trying too hard because everything takes time and a process, and we can't ride that pink cloud forever. We have to actually work through it. Um number five, integrity. Um, that also works towards myself. I need to be honest with myself, and I think that that's a really big beginning because um when I wasn't a really big liar, I mean, to an extent, right? I found$100 once and I knew who it belonged to, and I gave it back to him, and I fucking could have kept it for myself to get drugs, but I gave it back to them. So um, you know, that's not integrity why I'm using so much, but my integrity is really important to me, and that is like following through and keeping commitments, and obviously keeping commitments can uh go back to my um to my abandonment issues, right? So I'm very hung up on keeping my commitments and keeping time, being on time, and I always get there way too early, but that's just who I am. Um, and that, you know, respecting myself and having my moral compass going, right? Um, I have a really hard time keeping my mouth shut when I should, and I'll be in the middle of a conversation with somebody and they're talking, and I gotta jump in. So I really need to like stop. And I mean, I the reason I bring that part up is because I need to respect others and I need to be able to stop and remember that I need to listen to others too, and that is respect, right? Um number six, accept acceptance, uh, low self-esteem. Um you know, that's when when I when I started drugs, that was like the answer to my low self-esteem at the time. You know, it it made me want more, it made me feel good. Um, but then it made it worse closer to the middle and to the end, made it so much worse because if I couldn't look myself and I couldn't talk to others and look at other people, like then I'm beating me and beating me up. And that's what overtook me. And it and it was scary. So my low self-esteem is still present at times, but I also know I'm better than I was, and I have some confidence in myself. Like I do stuff in my life actively to be out there, okay. Um let's see here. Oh working at letting go. Um that's a hard one. I'm trying to work on that. Um and I don't need God for that. I don't I I I need to work with my psyche, with my internal thoughts, and I need to stop beating up myself for mistakes or whatever. Because all of that stuff is in the past, and I'm trying to move forward. The past, it's there. What did I learn from it? What am I learning from it? And I mean, I admit I have to sit down and think about it. I think I brought said it last week. Like I had my birthday and I was like, stay in the moment all day. And why didn't I say that to myself before? I don't know. Um, but you know, if I'm looking at myself and trying to fix things, I need to let other stuff go. Um, Ken, how much time do I have? I don't want to. About six minutes. Oh boy, I tend to talk a lot. I'll try. I'm gonna skip forward. Oh, except for this. I'm willing to do better. Um, I think with willingness, it's really, really deeply internal because we are willing. I was willing to do, you know, get clean, to learn about this stuff, to connect with other people. But that willingness is hard because we also I also had difficulty being, is this what I really want? Is this something that is gonna save me? Like I enjoyed using at times, right? But I can I can definitely see that I don't I don't have cravings anymore. And I don't, um, I mean, you know, as often as I used to. Um, and I don't think about it very often. And one of the things that I really, really worked on was saying, think it all the way through. Because I know how it started, I know what happened during, and I know how I felt at the end. And it's scary, let alone all the stuff out there right now is more potent, more heavy. People are dying. People died back when I was there, but it's different these days. And I've had to narcand three or four people and at my job, and it's not something I enjoy, it's scary. And the last person I had to narcate was turning blue. I watched his face turn blue, and he was okay, thankfully. Anyway, so I gotta be willing to be able to do that, right? And I am, I need to also be willing to work more on my steps, and I need to work on that. I'll just say that right now. Um, like I said earlier, it's not a marathon, it's it's a freaking process. It's take your time, and you know, I can't tell anybody how long to take, but I've known people who like rush through this. I'm ready to do this. And like second time around might be more fulfilling, right? I'm not great at doing my steps. Like, I do live as best I can my program, the steps. You know, I'm engaged, I'm involved, I do, I have service positions. And I think sometimes if if there is a fall off of doing steps, having service is a really good idea too, right? And um, you know, some people like self-help books. I don't. And that's just it. I don't like writing down stuff. And I think talking is sometimes the best way to get things done, but that's for me, you know. Um, I've always been a really deep in-depth talker, thinker, um, caring type of person. And I was just like, I don't, a piece of paper doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't jump into my mind or into the mind of somebody else. So yes, it does, but at the same time, like I just enjoy talking in it into depth with people. I'm not a surface person, and I don't think writing to another person is necessarily surface for me at least. Um I already talked about service. Um, and it says number 10 is maintenance, which is basically walking the walk, walking the steps, living on a daily basis. You know, it's I I have this, like I said, this tendency to speak out when I shouldn't. And I'm aware of this, so work on staying in the moment. Uh, meditation, mindfulness, like literally, it stops the time and gives you a few minutes, 10 minutes, whatever, to actually come together, right? And you follow your thoughts sometimes, but it it takes you away from that. And one other thing I'll say, and I'll end with this find hobbies. I'm not ending with this, I take that back. Find hobbies because we're um we all have something to offer. It could be volunteering, it could be drawing, you know, there's so many things, woodworking. I don't care. It's something that'll keep us focused, keep us entertained, make us happy, producing something. Um okay, this will be the last part. Oh, good. Um, and I can't remember what it is. I think that overall, my goal is to be content. I don't exactly know what happy is. I know some things that make me happy. Um, if I don't have happiness or if I have happiness, then I've had sadness and hard times. And contentment is kind of in between, but not upset and not, you know, the other. Um I don't want to live higher than what I do now. Nobody is better than me. I'm no better than anybody else, and I want to work at myself. So I'll end there. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

Thank you, Maggie. It's so important to hear your message that recovery is a slow, nonlinear process, not a marathon, but a lifelong practice built on integrity, willingness, acceptance, letting go, and finding meaningful hobbies and service. We can also relate to the way you phrase your quiet but powerful goal. Not happiness, exactly, but certainly contentment. A reminder to everyone for more information on recovery from addiction through the Narcotics Anonymous 12-step program from a secular, non-religious approach, please check out our website, secularna.org. That's S-E-C-U-L-A-R-N-A.org. This is Michael E. for the stories of secular recovery from addiction through Narcotics Anonymous podcast. Staying clean, one speaker at a time.