EPISODE 12: PAMEE

In this episode, we hear from Pamee who has a 36 year connection with NA, with honest detours along the way.  Pamee speaks about relapse, PTSD, service, and healing with a candor that doesn't flinch. This is a share about staying alive, staying clean, and building a life where both are possible. Lastly, Pamee reminds us that healing runs alongside recovery, not behind it. Recorded on June 10, 2026 at the Wednesday Another Secular Meeting meeting.

For more information on recovery from addiction through Narcotics Anonymous 12 step program from a secular, non-religious approach, please check out secularna.org

**  This podcast is not formally affiliated in any way with Narcotics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous World Services. **

Comments are welcome. Email to: secularna@gmail.com

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:13

Greetings. Welcome and thank you for tuning in to our podcast, Stories of Secular Recovery from Addiction Through Narcotics Anonymous. I am Michael E., coordinator and producer of the podcast. Each episode is a story of addiction recovery from a member of Narcotics Anonymous, NA, who became clean in a secular, non-religious way. For more information about secular NA, check out our website, secularna.org. Thank you. In this episode, we hear from Pammy, who has 36 years connection with NA. Pammy speaks about relapse, PTSD, service, and healing with a candor that doesn't flinch. This is a share about staying alive, staying clean, and building a life where both are possible. Here's Pammy.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Hi family, I'm Pammy. I'm an addict. This is surprising because I completely forgot, which is awesome, because then I didn't have a chance to be nervous or anything, and I'm super duper sick with a cold. I can't remember the last time I was sick. But um, you know, it doesn't matter now since the pandemic, right? I mean, if I was gonna be going to a meeting to speak, I think I would have canceled. Um, I don't have to. I I really don't. And plus it's all it's not morning anymore. I felt wet worse in the morning. I'm sure I'll feel shitty again in the evening. That's kind of how sickness is, it comes down at night for me. But um, and when I say I felt poorly, I want to go ahead and and just mention that like my feelings kind of rule. So like I didn't just feel poorly and think, oh my God, it's a darn cold, you know. Like I kind of felt like, is it worth it to be alive anymore? You know, like that's how my emotions go. That's how they, you know, I big, they're big. But they always told me, first of all, if someone asked you to speak, the answer is yes. They also always told, then they said, so here's the way you do that. You talk about what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now. And I don't know if that's gonna work for me because like what it was like. I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about before I ever came to NA, which is 36 years ago, when I was using 24-7 for years. Um, I got clean when I was 26 and I'm 63. Um, I'm not, I'm 62, guys. Damn. So anyway, it's that's my birth year, 63. So anyway, um so what it was like is is kind of a long time ago. On the other hand, my story includes relapse. And it's bizarro because when I'm reading literature, I don't, I don't know how to like relate to it because I I can't honestly remember the career of active addiction. I definitely don't remember all the maneuvering that we sometimes hear in the literature of like you tried to limit, like I'm gonna use on these days, or I'm only gonna use these substances, or for this amount. Like, I know I don't remember any of that. I knew I was gonna die of my addiction, pretty much from jump. I was driving a cab at the time in the Bronx, New York. I did that for four years. And um so that's you know, it's crazy. I mean, that person also was integrated into whom you see and and here sitting here and speaking. Um, but what it was like, I kind of can't remember. I just know that when I relapse now, I come back in immediately and with a tremendous amount of shame. Like a tremendous amount. Um I think this last time, I only remember not coming back in for about a week, but I had service. I was timing at a meeting that I've been in service in for a while. And I went to do that, you know, service commitment, and I'm so grateful about that. Um, and then today reminds me again, like right, speaking is service. Anyone with your video on, I just want to personally thank you and say it's as if you're in service to me, for me, because I've been in a meet and sharing before, and then I see that there's like zero people with video on, and I literally want to rage leave and like go out and fucking talk to the tree, you know, in the yard, because I feel like that'll be more interactive for me. Like I am old school NA, you know, where you people sitting in a room couldn't be like, but I understand that, you know, that the video and the audio sometimes can't both happen at the same time because it interferes with with Wi-Fi and speed, you know, and data. But um I understand that intellectually it takes a lifetime for me to move shit from head to heart. But um, so yeah, um, but services this wild little animal, man, because you know, I I have like the next key tag I would be picking up is gonna be six months. And I can tell you that I had 15 years and relapse during the pandemic. I then got clean again, and and that was a fucking relapse. Yo, I use like that's the first time since uh 1990 that I went back to the lifestyle. I had had other relapses, but um, but you know, they would be like 12 hours, 18 hours, bam, right back in the rooms. You know, that's when NA was in person and everything. But when during the pandemic, when I relapsed, my son was a teenager, he was about to go into the army, and I had been confiscating his, you know, like I my home became a slippery place. My son is a slippery person for me, and I was handling slippery things literally every day. Like I am not exaggerating from the time he was 13 until I told him when he was about 16, you're on the 1890 plan, you got 90 days after you turn 18 to get out. So, like, because raising a teenager was was traumatic for me, it was a nightmare. Um, and I relapsed ultimately. I mean, after throwing away so much shit constantly with this boy, one time I just did it, and it was during the pandemic, kids didn't even go to school anymore. And um, and I was out for a year and a half and I was using every day. And and I never went back to my drug of choice, but like I heard someone share once something about I I my drug of choice has changed, and then they mentioned whatever, you know, was their new one. And I kind of thought, huh, now that's an interesting way to put it because when I relapse, you know, I'm I'm behind the wheel of the car, the gravel is flying. I I'm at go to the corner, I turn, and I'm at 714, I know, and then I'm home. And like inside of 10 minutes, I've I'm already using. And I I have PTSD, you guys, like super bad. But the way that that manifests generally is me running, like I it'll be raining, and I'm in my socks and I'm running up the street, right? Looking for somewhere to hide. And as soon as I say I dive into it, right, and I'm there, however long, like PTSD is this flipped out thing that I've had since I was a child, and only now am I understanding what the fuck is going on with it. But I've I've come to believe that that's that something about these relapses subsequently. I got two years then again after the pandemic and relapsed. And I have, I think it's safe almost to say that every time I've relapsed, it's been behind relationship. I've been in a tumultuous relationship for over five years, and um and I got clean again during that relationship, and I've relapsed many times subsequently. But after I had two years again, then I I relapsed and I got six months, and you know, here I am again. But um, so you know, I don't really kind of need to figure out the why. Like relapsing causes me humiliation and shame. But the why is that I'm an addict, you know, that's the fucking why. Um, what I do need to do is continue to heal, right? Like recovery is go is here on this path and healing is here on this parallel path. I know that I can't heal though without being clean. And um, and so you know, I use because I'm an addict. I'm grateful to be speaking because I don't generally get the chance to try to, like I don't ever I seldom share on topic. When I share, it's I I try to cut right to whatever is going on with me that is troubling. And um, and lo and behold, occasionally, just like I kind of did when I just started to talk about PTSD, right? I'll start to choke up. And and I thought I was just talking about something totally like that wasn't a big whoop. But it's it shows me, it informs what I'm suppressing because it's kind of a short circuit. It's not like I deliberately decide, you know what, I'm gonna be bubbly and cheerful, like that's default mode, either that or self-harm, right? Oh my God, talk about extremes. Those are the two default modes, but you know, I'm working on this self-harm. But the when I I suppress shit because it's pain, I don't want to hurt. And and I'm not doing that on purpose, it but it I'll never figure it out. I won't have a clue what the hell is on the shelf that I until I talk, like talking works. And it's it's gotta be with like to somebody who gives a shit. When there is someone present who cares, like I could tell people that I have relationships with, but I know they're not really capable of kind of being there and caring and whatever, and just gloss over it and say, like, like I'm talking about the news. But when someone cares, like most everybody in this room, I'll choke up, and that's when I find out the shape of it, you know. I don't know until I get it in front of me. But um so there's two things that I must do, and they're hard, and that's stay clean and stay safe, but I can do them, like I can do them. I found that out. Um, and then I have a chance, you know, I have a chance with all the other stuff because I'm a person who doesn't just go to secular NA. And also, by the way, I go to Australian meetings a lot because I hear a lot of different attitudes in there that it's not the typical American kind of, you know, when when I read the literature, by the way, I don't say God, I'm saying guide. I don't know if anyone can hear it, but I can. And um anyway, I have a chance at healing, but like I, you know, what do they call that comorbidity? Like I go to also dual diagnosis, dual recovery meetings, um, because I am big time, like I take my mental health super duper seriously and I am getting professional help because my mother killed herself when I was 14. So I don't f around with it, right? But I do, right? Because I wouldn't have, I wouldn't be looking at my next milestone being six months if I did, if I just could have had this thing down to a method. And you know, I would have thought I did, but I now have some shit down to a method. But it's crazy, there's this thing called retracted um PTSD. And the whole time I was a mom, I could probably count on one hand the number of PTSD episodes I had because I was responsible for another human. And it just like I wasn't Pammy, I was Jesper's mom. And um, and then he turned 18. He went in the army, and like my PTSD sort of kicking my ass again. And I found out, you know, that that like you can have kind of an override, whatever situation where it's it kind of went on ice for 18 years. What? But it's here, and um, so yeah, I I attend, you know, meetings that are about illness and recovery or whatever, and I get professional help, and I have a chance as long as I stay safe and I stay clean. Um, but you know, I'm grateful as hell. And it was an Aussie like meeting that's like four in the morning here that I went to. It was it was um atheist recover too that turned me on to any secular, and I'm so grateful for it because I would go to meetings and be like, you know, identifying out, identifying out after 36 years, and and like feeling like the steam coming out of my ears and stuff. But you know, back in the 90s, when you would go to conventions without fail at convos, there would there would be some type of a workshop that talked about the language in the literature, and you know, like neutering the pronoun, like God as we understood him. And there was a point, and when I first was new, because my siblings all used the Bible as a weapon once they got born again when I was a kid, they're much older than I am. And um, and it was like a wonderful disclaimer for me when I was brand new that it said, God, as we understood him, like, yo, I get to decide. And then I came to a place where that was no longer any kind of comfort to me whatsoever. It I resented that hymn, right? And I was like, you know what? Fuck this whole program. Like, I'm just gonna, I don't need this. I totally don't need this. Oh, my puppy's getting upset. I must be passionate. And that like still small voice within said, no, no, no. You go to the meeting and you say, Hi, family, my name is Pammy. I'm an addict and we need to neuter the pronoun. Thanks for letting me share. And I was like, Motherfucker, like that's true, like that is what I have to do, you know. And so, like, then I did that. And you know, now like I said, I I just say guide, but I'm getting uh oh that's a huge distraction that I'm gonna have to deal deal with that because she's persistent. I'm so sorry. No, no, if she starts barking again, I have to put her out. You guys, I don't know what I was thinking. A puppy is like a a child. I I don't know what I was thinking, but anyway, um so yeah, the the language of the literature can be difficult for me, but so what I've done recently, um I had a sponsor since I relapsed, um, that I've known for 27 years that would send me memes and stuff that would say stuff like Lord and blessed and he and God. And and I finally got the gumption to say, dude, I totally like that's not my beliefs. And and and she like stopped for a little while, but it started back up. So I now have a sponsor who came to this meeting today, is in this room. Unbelievable, right? Like I forget that NA is the fabric of my life. I totally just like I forgot I was speaking today. I definitely forget that. And yet tomorrow, um, there's an in-person in this tiny little town where I live in West Virginia. And yes, Chris and I have not met, but we live with it about an hour apart. Um and you know, I'm only an hour and a half from DC, and that's where I grew up, but I lived in the Bronx for a long time. But, you know, the the person in this meeting who's my sponsor now, I was able to meet because of a convention that happened to be near where she lives. And I've gone to that convention almost without fail for probably 10 years, and I camp and it's so it's not expensive and it's beautiful. And like I forget that NA is the fabric of my damn life, right? Like, so tomorrow evening, there's an in-person here, and the only in-person in this town for 20 years from 2004 till 2024, when I finally closed it down, was a meeting that I like started when my son was little and I was traveling really far. I'm gonna deal with that. Sorry. Ryan. Come here. Oh my, I really hope that doesn't keep happening. And at that meeting, I shared and I said, you know, I can't, I had bought my house here, and I was like, I can't have a new house and a new baby and a new job all at the same time. And after the meeting, a dude walked up to me and said, you know what? Because of that new baby, you have to start a meeting in Berkeley Springs. And I was like, gosh darn it, you know, he was right, and I did. But it it's not easy to have a meeting in a small town. It's very frequently two people, and sometimes nobody comes. And then every now and then it gets fluffy, and that'll hang in for a while, you know. But the cohesion is it shifts a lot. So several months ago, so I stopped it in 2024 because the only other person who was coming was a stalker who actually wasn't in program. And I talked to a lot of people about it, and that's what they said you have to shut it down, like you have to shut it down, and I did. But um, several months ago, someone started another meeting, NA meeting in Berkeley Springs, unbelievable, so exciting. And dude was really unreliable. And um after three weeks of his not being there and my having the key, we had a little group conscience, and we decided he said he was going to shut it down, and we decided to keep it going. And so that means tomorrow it's and we had to change churches because or or then, you know, where the meeting's held, because somebody like housekeeping or something was offended that we would cuss at the meeting. And um, you know, so that's tomorrow evening, every Thursday in Berkeley Springs, West Virginia. There is a meeting now. And I don't mean to be but like so. I made a commitment with somebody else that you can't, I can't, I couldn't have a meeting just me. I did that for 20 years. It was very tough. Um, but I don't mean to have NA be absolutely part and parcel with who I am, but man, that's probably the biggest piece of my identity. That I've done the longest is is being clean, not using, you know, that's that's a huge part of my identity. And when I pick up, it's because I am not um committed to staying alive anymore, essentially, you know, but um it it is part and parcel of every aspect of who I am, you know, and and the vehicle for being clean is NA. Um I've just been coming for so long that like I said, when I I don't even realize or recognize, you know, that I'm timing three times a week and that like, oh yeah, I I did tell Chris I would speak. And uh yeah, I did just find back on for an NA in person, you know, because that's how NA used to be. And it really does only take two to have a meeting. It really does, it really happens with two people. A meeting happens. It's crazy, right? But it's true. And um, so you know, that is that's it, like as far as any message I I have. Um I just know that uh, like I said, in the 90s they used to talk about changing the language, and it kind of went away, but it's kind of come back around. And at my um 6:30 a.m. meeting, they recently put in there, you know, like anyone may join us regardless of age, race, sexual identity. They said gender identity, creed, religion, they just put it in there. They're just like, you know, because each meeting is autonomous. But so, you know, I just kind of skim over the language where I need to, and and then, you know, leave that and take the rest that if it that I can use. And man, there's a hell of a lot rest. There's a hell of a lot more to NA than the parts of the literature that don't work for me, you know. And I gotta member that it might work for you, but it doesn't work for me. And I gotta declare that too. The literature encourages that. So thanks for letting me share.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Thank you, Pammy, for showing up in spite of a cold. And thank you for your 36 years of hard-won honesty and for reminding us that healing runs alongside recovery, not behind it. We're grateful for your service, your wisdom, and your candor. A reminder to everyone for more information on recovery from addiction through the Narcotics Anonymous 12-step program from a secular, non-religious approach, please check out our website, secularna.org. That's S E-C U L A-R-N-A.org. This is Michael E. For the stories of secular recovery from addiction through Narcotics Anonymous podcasts. Staying clean, one speaker at a time.