EPISODE 13: JOHN C

In this episode, we hear from John C, an Australian NA member with nearly 39 years of recovery. In his share, John describes building a secular, humanist path through the Twelve Steps by replacing belief in God with humility, honest self-examination, and a deepening capacity to love the people closest to him. John’s story offers proof that the program bends to fit the person, not the other way around.  Recorded on May 2, 2025 at the Friday, NA Secular Speaker Meeting.

For more information on recovery from addiction through Narcotics Anonymous 12 step program from a secular, non-religious approach, please check out secularna.org

**  This podcast is not formally affiliated in any way with Narcotics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous World Services. **

Comments are welcome. Email to: secularna@gmail.com

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:52

Australia and a number of building 39 years of the first time. By replacing belief in God with humility, honest self-examination, and a deepening capacity to love the people closest to him. Here's John.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I'm John. I'm an addict and I'm drug-free and uh I'm pleased to be here. I have done meetings of uh Narcotics Anonymous for a long time. Um but I'm from Melbourne in Australia, of course, and I haven't had much trouble with um people's views on God because they seem pretty uh laid back to me here. So I'm I'm pretty lucky about that, but that's not the point. The point was I but I came to Narcotics Anonymous when I was, I guess, on reflection, dying of a broken heart, and um and I remember reading the first step of Narcotics Anonymous, and I thought, oh, I know this. I've known this for years, you know, this would be a breeze, you know, and uh since that time that thought went into my head, I spent the next four years coming to meetings, losing jobs, losing access to my daughter, breaking my partner's heart, you know, walking every step in shame and and uh the fellowship was doing its magic behind my back, sort of thing, you know. To me, the program has never been a linear program because every interaction I had with every member and and the capacity to go to meetings as I wished was some individuals carrying the message of recovery through the 12 steps, you know. So 12 step was working on me before I was even in recovery. Because when I was out in the street, lost and confused, I would find myself going to meetings, you know, and uh I did that for a few years before I came into recovery. Yeah, and for me the main thing, the the main aspect of uh was I would I I had to get a sponsor, you know. That's what I had to do. A mentor, you know, I don't like the word sponsor, it sounds like someone famous to be to be drug free or something, you know. Yeah, so I came in with a lot of baggage, you know, and uh and I'm I'm I'm sort of pleased that some of the newer literature I I I don't take much heed of to be honest, you know. But I worked the steps and uh, you know, I had a I got a sponsor and I said to him, Look, I need to let you know I don't believe in God. And he said, Well, resigned from the debating club. Full stop, you know, and uh I I think I've sort of done that. You know, I had a guy say a while ago, an ex-priest say that he doesn't call himself an atheist, because an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in something that does not exist. So it's sort of so I tend to call myself a humanist now, you know. Um anyway, that's besides the point. I had to do the program as as written and as um interpreted by myself. I was probably more offended by the gender language than I was by the God language because I didn't take much notice of the God language, you know, and I noticed very quickly that the most used words in our steps is we, you know, so we're a community. That is we're we're a unity in common, and we're in common for the purpose of recovery and people seeking recovery. That's how I understand the basis of narcotics anonymous program and its program and its culture, you know. So I've always had to be open-minded. So look, the first step for me was acceptance, the second step was admittance, you know, and the third step was action, you know. So not believing in God didn't it doesn't matter that I don't believe in God. I had to find a belief system that worked for me. I believe I entered the process when I decided to do my fourth step. So I had this guy who had seen me come into meetings for years. I knew he was a Quaker, so I knew he'd be he, you know, I really like he's a really good guy, really. And he I asked him to support me. He wasn't a street addict like me, he was totally different. He even had a suit, you know. And he said to me, Look, you've been coming to meetings a long time. The opportunity of a lifetime must be grasped in the lifetime of the opportunity. So why don't you think about doing a four-step? Yeah. So the first writing I did was a four step, and the first resentment I had, believe it or not, of course, was my father. You know, I lived in fear all my life for the expectation of I just lived in with fear and anxiety, you know. And so when I was doing this four step, I realized or I discovered that all the in my resentment of my father, that all my ducking and weaving and being trying to be invisible was my solution at the time. The solution to my childhood was being invisible as much as I could, you know. So that was a really liberating for me to understand it. What we call character defects are character traits that are no longer useful to us. You know, that's how I understand it, you know. So look, I started doing the fourth step, and I did it pretty rapidly. I I set aside 20 minutes every day to do it. And before I wrote, I would acknowledge the universe, and I sort of, you know, let and and when I closed, even if I hadn't written the thing, I was thankful that I put the time aside to do, you know. And sharing my fifth step was probably one of the most it was it's it was almost sort of magical. I had the humility to not have to exaggerate my lifestyle. You know, I knew I lived in addiction. I knew I didn't trust the people around me because I knew I didn't trust myself. You know, I was very quick to fear and so very quick to anger. You know, I was either I realized I was either sort of hiding under a rock or I was hitting you over the head with it. There was no in-between. But one of the other things I did in my fourth state was I I didn't really write about my behavior and act of addiction, except for its impact on the people I had been trying to love all my life, you know? My family, they had not disowned me, never did disown me. My partner, who wanted to disown me but couldn't because she loved me. My daughter, who I wasn't allowed to see, because I couldn't be trusted. And I couldn't argue about any of those things, you know. So sharing that stuff, you know, the reason I didn't do too much in my fourth step about my activities outside of the people I love is because it was superfluous to me. I was violent, I was fearful, people were violent towards me. It was just a misery. I sucked up to people that I couldn't stand in order to get drugs, which was incredibly shaming. So I put all aside, apart from the fact that if I wasn't an addict, I wouldn't have been in, I wouldn't have been entrenched in those cultures, you know. Um so the fourth step was very liberating for me, and uh sharing it was even more important, like sharing it in the fifth step was really, really important. And I loved it. This guy just, I don't know if he fell asleep, I don't know what he was doing. You know, he did say, and he always said did that to me when he was when he when we sat together. I wasn't one of these people that rang someone up every day, but we used to have a meal probably once a fortnight. And he'd then we'd have a chat, and he'd always start. I think it was just taking the piss, it always started, but look, I'm gonna say the serenity prayer in silence to myself. You can do what you like while I'm doing that, you know. So he was very, and at the end of each of a meet uh uh sort of time together, he would do the same thing as he'd say, I'm gonna close this session with the serenity prayer, you can put it with your thumbs, you can do what you like, you know. And uh sharing the fifth step, I got this, I got this thing that if the the character traits that were no longer useful to me, if I could if I could address them only as they arose in my life, not in theory anymore, because I'd written, you know, how how do I how do I respond to these things? As we know, things arise within us for no apparent reason at different times, you know, and um it was how do I address that? You know, if I see someone who's aggressive, it doesn't mean they're necessarily aggressive with me. I don't have to get my backup, I don't have to fight or flight sort of thing. I just have to be able to assess, you know. The logic is very important for me in recovery, particularly in in my emotional life, you know. There's a lovely, you know, I've been in NA a really long time, but prior to NA we went to AA in Melbourne because it was only two meetings, you know. And I I can remember this reading about emotional sobriety, you know, and that's you know, it was my emotional life was chaotic, you know. Never mind my conscience and my even when I spoke to him about my conscience, he said, how what will guide you in this, you know, and I just said, Oh, my conscience. And he said, Well, that's he said, Well, that's fine. He said, Have a think about how your conscience over the first 16 years of your life may have not been very healthy. And he didn't mean in early active addiction, I think he meant that I was misshaped by my religious upbringing, you know, and I certainly was. Like all people, I'm shaped and misshaped by my by my upbringing, you know, and um so it was very important for me to see those things, you know. So the sixth step was really where I thought, look, I can deal with these things, I could write about these things forever, and it wouldn't change a thing. It's how I respond to them when they arise in my life. So those those negative character traits, in order to hone them and and or replace them, I needed to work on my shortcomings, the information I didn't have in order to change how I lived in the world. Again, particularly my emotional response to the world. You know, I came into NA, I've been in NA, I've been in recovery a long time. I've been in NA much longer than half my life. And I came in, I was not racist, I was not sexist intellectually, but in my emotions, I couldn't. I it was very I remember early in recovery realizing I'd been to probably hundreds of meetings in my first year of recovery, and I would go home to this woman where I still live today, and and I did I wouldn't treat her very well. It was like it was it was the insight of recognizing I give more time to lunatics and narcotics anonymous than I do to this person at home that loves me. You know, so deep within me, I I think I had this sort of sexist sort of, I don't know what it was, it doesn't really matter, I don't do know, you know. But it was quite, I I found it quite um challenging and appalling that I when I recognized that I treated people in NA, or I exhausted myself treating people well at NA, then I'd go home and I was I was washed out, you know, and I would I could be disrespectful at the drop of a hat, you know. So I started to really emphasize maybe maybe not being so tolerant at any, but just walking away from people and taking the tolerance and the love that I wanted to share, started sharing it much more at home. So I don't judge my recovery by how I am around meetings at all. If I do any judging, it's around how do I how do I respond to the love of people in my life? You know, we know there's all different sorts of love, you know. We know as a fellowship we love each other for the purposes of recovery, but it's different to the intimate love that we have in specific relationships, you know. So the shortcomings were those things in myself, you know. And um I was asked to make amends, I think about making amends, and again, I didn't go back to the old environment. It was really at home and tried to make amends to my daughter and my actions, and being allowed to see her was a gift, never mind being able to make amends to her through my actions. Yeah, I was sort of quite ashamed because I was I was quite poor, and the only reason I live in this beautiful house is because my partner paid a mortgage without me for a few years, you know. So I had to make financial amends, but the most important ones were how to generate, how to allow people around me that love me to be able to trust me. How how the how the barriers of our histories together were whited away by me fronting up, you know, standing up, straightening up, and and and being forthright and having integrity and dignity in my life. You know. So they were to think that was how I'm I I I try and make I do make amends, you know. I don't make amends now because I used to use and used to rob Karen here, but I make amends by loving her as the best I can in every given day, you know. And life is not a bull of cherries. I have a daughter, she's 50 year old, but me and my partner can't have children, you know, and so that's that's just life on life's terms, you know, and um so how do I have to how do I generate the the spirit, the energy, you know, of of maintaining wellness in recovery, you know? Yeah, so I I've made direct amends, I ensure that I was able to do it when people were well enough to accept it. I wouldn't again wouldn't go back into the old environment or wouldn't make amends to people who are angry towards me until I got the permission, you know. And um the tenth step, look, I I don't know, I think I reflect on my life on a daily bit on a daily basis. I I um I'm not self-obsessed, but I have an awareness that it's very easy to be kind. That's what I understand, you know. I'm not kind all the time, but the bottom line is I know how to be kind, I know how to put my head down at night and just fall asleep. Yeah, and I think that's a really gracious thing to be able to do, you know. So the 10th step is not something I write. As a matter of fact, I've probably only written two, four steps in my recovery. You know, and I've been this is my I've been in recovery for 39 years in a few months, yeah. And um I I still sponsor people, you know, so that's that's a 12 step, obviously. Yeah. So living step, I don't really look, I I have this thing that I wish, you know, I have I have four grandsons, I have a daughter, she has a and I wish them all well. No, some people I I do it every morning when I wake up. I mean, that's some people would say that's prayer. I think it's deeply thinking about people in with generosity in your life. You know, when I've had conflict with people and I try and wish them well, some people would say that is prayer. I don't know. I I don't really understand it, you know. I mean, I understand prayer, I understand prayer, understand meditation and reflection, and you know, I may I I I tend to meditate quite a bit, or I I'll try to be mindful. It's an often overused word, you know. In Scotland, even when I was a kid, I can remember people saving the left, you did say, mind how you go, you know, be mindful how you go, you know. So it's not a new thing, you know. And uh, but I like to go back to the breath, you know, it is one breath at a time, you know. So my I live in step is is really around meditation and and wishing people well. I am influenced by lots of other things. The program gave me the courage to go to what is now called therapy, you know, because I was so I didn't realize I was so traumatized by ducking and weaving all of my life, you know. But it wasn't the the difference between going to therapy and doing the 12-step program is they tend to see is only a benefit for you, whereas the program sees how we heal as a benefit to a common unity, our community of recovery and addicts and people in recovery. So that's very different from that's the key to the difference between us and other types of healing out there. It was any only that gave me the courage to do the things I did external to the program, you know. So that's my living step. I do try and reflect, you know. I know when I it doesn't I don't have to be a road scholar to work out why I've been unkind to someone, you know, and I make amends or I apologize the best I can. If it's not that important, I don't worry about it, you know. So the 12th step for me is really how do I live my life? You know, many, many years ago, and any member said to me, how you are in front of another human being, particularly one seeking recovery, might be the only recovery reading they see. If they read you as a as a kind and generous person, that will allow them to breathe easier, you know. So I think these things are really important, they're really, really simple things. Like a lot of us, I guess. I think I wonder what I'm gonna be when I grow up, you know. And I really I'm a I'm a recovering addict. I we can we can go to meetings, you know, I could film a life full of meetings, you know. I'm quite I I I came into recovery at 35, 36, midway, midway sort of thing. And I and my sponsor said to me, said, Well, how are you gonna live your? I said, Well, I'll get it, I'll get a job on a build. One of my mates will give me a job on a building site, and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, they would let me in because I'll, you know, I'll I'll be on picket lines with them and all that. And they said, Yeah, but how you know how to drive trucks beyond sites, beyond picket lines. What do you want to do? And he challenged me to study. He said, he didn't challenge, I said, What about studying? I said, if I do that program, if I do that study, I'll be 41 when I finish. And he said, How old will you be in three years' time if you don't do it? You know, so it was really like, so I've studied and I've worked, you know. And oddly enough, today I work in this amazing place where 90 men live who are all histories of addiction and mental health. And and I worked with two priests and a nun. They know I don't believe a thing that I as a matter of fact, as an adult and seeing how they operate, because I even take people into mass in wheelchairs and the like, and it's I'm quite um I just find it very strange that people can believe, you know, I really do, you know, but that's their business. You know, my business is to not be arrogant in front of them, to be humble in front of them. And they even do this thing sometimes. Oh, John down the back, he's just there because he has to pull people in, but we'll we'll say a little prayer for them, they say. So the the priest the priests take the piss out of me. Anyway, so look, on a good day I have a on a good day, I have a lovely, lovely day, I have a lovely life. On a bad day, I try and endure. I don't judge my bad days because I don't judge my my good days. You know, I I just accept what is, and isn't that what uh healing is about? You know, accept and don't expect, you know. So I expect that as long as I'm breathing, I'll I'll try and do the next right thing. So thank you all for listening, and it's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Thank you, John, for sharing so openly and so generously. Your story offers something really important. Proof of the program. That's the other way around.